After pondering this for awhile I thought it best to get your opinions on the matter. How do we effectively bring about change in the birth world? Is it by educating women, one client at a time. Is that enough? Will we get the word out sufficiently or do we have to reach farther?
Do we use the opportunities that present themselves to us, say the pregnant lady in the check-out line? Or a friend of a friend "who wants to know about such and such intervention" type thing. Do we have to have an open invitation to strike up a conversation or can it be a 'cold call' type of thing?
What constitutes an "open invitation"? Does a woman have to walk up to me and say "I'd like to know everything you know about birth" in order for me to share with her? I ask because although I'd like to say that I'm comfortable doing these things, but I have to say that I do have reservations: am I being too forward, I don't want to interfere, is there a 'limit' on what two strangers can talk about? [in our society I find it hard to see that there are limits on anything anymore, but ya never know...]
I like to take advantage of the opportunities that are presented to me but I find those to be few in this small town. How can we encourage these kind of opportunities?
Birth is a private affair and is a personal matter and people have deep seated feelings about it. People also had deep seated feelings about slavery and women's rights, and how did those things change? Legislation, yes but first came a groundswell of grassroots communication.
So what do you think?

Let me start with my favorite Margret Mead quotes:
~"The solution to adult problems tomorrow depends on large measure upon how our children grow up today."
~"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."
~"The way to do fieldwork is never to come up for air until it is all over."
I start with myself, my daughters, and my family. I talk openly about everything with my daughters, especially their bodies, and birth... and will about sex when they are ready. I want them to love and honor themselves. I talk to anyone who will listen. To make real change however, IMO, we need a shift in our culture. Women need to be exposed to normal birth WAY before they are pregnant, maybe in sex ed. They need to accept the concept of a process, and not immediate gratification we are so used to today. We need to understand that just because we have great technology doesn't mean we should use it all the time. The US maternity system needs uprooting. We need to have midwives (medwives need not apply) attending low risk women, and keep OB's where they are most comfortable, in the operating room, taking Holland as an example...then we get into our health care system. Unfortunately, this means being political (writing to those politician & lobbying for bills), raising money & awareness (time), organization, commitment, and a passion to make change happen. Personally, I have asked pregnant women who were acquaintences who were talking about their 'doctor' blabla "Is everything OK?" they usually reply "yes, why" Then I talk about midwives, and maybe give them a few names of those I trust. Is it my business? No, probably not, but maybe I will have given them something to think about. Maybe the next time they get pregnant, they remember what I said and do some research on their own. Because I came from a place of such ignorance about birth that I thanked my lucky stars, and was pissed (at myself) that there was so much I didn't know! I wish I thought enough of myself (and my ignorance) to find out all my options, and choose what was best for me and my babies. We do the best we can with what we got, but if we don't know what we have, then how can we use it? Sometimes it takes someone saying, "I had a wonderful homebirth!" before we can even think...."I can have my baby at home if I want?" Let me really think this through, ask questions of myself, and my care provider. Honestly, what are my options? I do not know how to make someone care. How do we enlighten them to the fact that how we give birth really matters? A means to an end...how sad, but it is their journey. :shrug
"A strong woman knows she has strength enough for the journey, but a woman of strength knows its in the journey where she will become strong."~ Unknown

I do not think we will change the world. All we can change is ourselves, and hopefully it ripples out from there.
But I do not see much change as far as birth goes. Not when 98% of women are having epidurals...at least in the hospital I was at yesterday.

"I could have saved thousands-if only I'd been able to convince them they
were slaves." Harriet Tubman

"I could have saved thousands-if only I'd been able to convince them they
were slaves." Harriet Tubman
And that is what is so sad ~ because of everything that women are exposed to as 'normal' ~ epidurals, inductions, cesareans ~ it is the woman that seeks a natural birth as the strange one. Women no longer see birth as a part of their journey to becoming moms ~ just a terrible situation to get through as quickly and painlessly as possible so they can take their baby home. :crying

"I could have saved thousands-if only I'd been able to convince them they
were slaves." Harriet Tubman


We can't "save" our clients. Just like she couldn't "save" those who were content with being enslaved.

How do we change our broken maternity system, this quote says it all to me and it's what I believe at my core: "The solution to adult problems tomorrow depends on large measure upon how our children grow up today."

We need to start with our children. I've given birth three times and all of them were medically induced, medically managed, the last was without pain medication. When I was trying to get pregnant with my youngest daughter it was very important to me that my older daughter (who would be at her sister's birth) see "normal birth." So she had the wonderful privilege of attending two totally natural waterbirths before her sister was born. I had all intentions to birth that baby at home, in the water, but pre-e had other ideas. So what she witnessed instead was how to navigate the medical system, how women can and SHOULD stand up for their rights and their beliefs and how to make truly informed decisions and where compromise is appropriate.

She may never have children, but I can tell you that she sees birth as normal. She knows that she should never just agree to what a DR says just because they're the DR. In fact, tonight she shared that one of her team mates is having surgery next week to remove an ovarian cyst. While I sympathize with this young girl we had a great discussion about options other than surgery. Her mother (the team mates) on the other hand took the first option offered and explored no further.

Start with the children. By the time that many women come to us they've already been en-cultured and it's difficult for real change to happen in the absence of trauma or dis-satisfaction with their previous birth. I don't know about other places but the majority of inquiries I field for our practice and privately are women who wished they'd listened or knew about doulas "last time" because it was a not so great experience and they want something different this time. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE getting first time moms too.

The sad fact that I've come to accept is that more women and babies will have to be hurt and even some die, maybe even some famous women and or their babies as a result of how birth is mis-managed or because of that elective cesarean before most women sit up and take notice and demand change.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we should throw our hands up in the air and stop what we're doing, but I don't ever think that "cold call" types of probing of women in order to "educate" them goes over well at all.

Let me bring you back 14 years. I was pg with twins - breech twins. They "had" to be delivered via c-section. Well, at the same time there was a midwife attending out church. She was always very interested in me and how the twins and I were doing. She would also tell the me options I might have. She also told me that she would have to know more about how the twins were situated, but she would maybe even consider vaginal if I were her client. I disregarded her at the time since I was still into the trusting doctors wishes mode.
After the birth, however, I got and infection and almost died. That midwifes words to me changed my life and made me study, finally, what options I would have should I get pg again. The studying fired me up so much I wanted to share with others!
So, I think we can do a lot just by being concerned, being real, speaking up when we feel led to. And, we may never know the effect we have on others by doing that. We may not see it at first, but it might change a life and have a ripple effect. I am sure the midwife who spoke to me didn't think she was having any effect on me, because at the time, it sure didn't look like it! :blush

I think about this a lot. Long before I was a mom and a doula I was a social justice activist. And let me tell you: I got completely burned out. Being a mom and a doula gave me an opportunity to internalize my passions in toward my family and my community. So, for the last couple years I have been completely rejuvenated by helping people one family or one family member at a time. But now I feel the shift again, and am looking out to the larger community once more to see what can change. So I guess I am saying we need both little "a" activism and big "A" activism....

Would it help if birth activists connected with other struggles, or the history of other struggles? I think so. Birth activism is unusual becasue it spans the political spectrum from far, far left (Hi!!) to the far right. Thats a challenge, but also an incredible asset. The left traditionally organizes quite differently than the right; a combination of skills and tactics could be so powerful! We can look and see the successes of other movements and try to move in that direction. What can a grassroots movement do? Mountains of letter writing, boycotts, street protests, phone calls, press releases, articles in the paper...... instigating change in groups you're already involved in. Getting women's groups and family rights groups to recognize that birth is an important issue....

ETA: I really believe that in order for the birth world to change, the world, or at least our corner of it, needs to change in some pretty fundamental ways. Since everythign is connected, struggles that don't seem related to birth are

Thanks for starting this thread. It's something that's been bugging me since I actually got to experience how great a homebirth can be just recently.
I agree that getting to the children is the best way to change things. But how can we do this on a large scale? Around here, you can't even talk to the health classes in the high school about birth b/c of the abstinence-only curriculum. The only girls I get to talk to are the ones who are already pregnant or have had kids. While that's great, it's a tiny minority of the girls who will actually need the information I have and they are usually the ones least likely to listen, because they are so overwhelmed already.
What if birth education were mandatory? Seems to me this actually could fit well with abstinence-only education in any case - maybe it would "scare" some of the girls enough to get them to wait. Make it more real, ya know? Could something like that be legislated? How does that work? Is it an individual school decision or a state decision or what? Any teachers or school administrators out there?

We can't "save" our clients. Just like she couldn't "save" those who were content with being enslaved.
This kind of effort isn't about saving a client. Everyone is stuck on that phrase.
What we are talking about is a fundamental change in the way Americans think and act. The quote highlights the problem Harriet Tubman had in educating and 'convincing' people that they were enslaved. I think that the people she is talking about here weren't 'content' being slaves as much as they didn't even realize that they were slaves. I see it much the same way here, women and society are enslaved to the medical system. But it goes far deeper than that in my opinion.
I do believe it starts w/my children, not only birth but all of life's education. But I don't feel that it's enough. Each one reach one, is an important step in the right direction but how long will that take? Is that enough to effect a change in our culture? Or can we do more by hosting birth network style meetings, reaching out to the local communities. If we can't reach school age children through the PS system, what about local churches? I for one have seen the teen pregnancy problems in churches too, and I would think that a respectful dialogue about birth in the teen outreach group could be done. I think that it is possible, although it may not be easy.
Perhaps I'm just impatient....:wait And watching BoBB today doesn't help matters any!! I think it just added fuel to my fire. So now, I'm planning on hosting a private party over to view it and see what developes there.

Grassroots movements. The Internet. Talk to people and tell them the truth. Don't hide the truth under politeness. Find a free space to do lectures on various issues, hold the lectures, and invite people. Host discussions for concerned members of your community. Go to your city/county/state meetings with your concerned members of the community and push for change.

Many people are willing to stand for something. They just need a leader.

That said, I've not found my leadership role yet. I hope to make it there though. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

Hey ladies :) I'm in the middle of starting a Birth Network down here with some other wonderful women to be coleaders with me. Maybe that is something you can start in your neck of the woods.

http://www.birthnetwork.org/chapter.htm

There are some things coming up that could surely use your help such as The Birth Survey.

http://www.thebirthsurvey.com/

To answer the OP post, I think it's all of the things you mentioned - and starting with our own children, and our children's significant others when they grow up. And then our grandbabies :) In public, it's easy for us to look like the crazy birth ladies once we get going haha. Geez I brought up placentophagy (encapsulating) in a certain circle while discussing The Mother's Act & postpartum mood disorders and nearly got my head bit off.

Geez I brought up placentophagy (encapsulating) in a certain circle while discussing The Mother's Act & postpartum mood disorders and nearly got my head bit off.
:yep I can understand why! :eek This is one of those issues that, although gaining popularity, is still on the 'fringe' in the mainstream. I'm sure that will change too. But even some otherwise progressive birthers have trouble w/the idea of eating their placenta.

There are some great ideas listed under advocacay at Birth Network.
http://www.birthnetwork.org/birthactivist_ideas.htm
One I :heartbeat is to be positive and encouraging to every pregnany woman that you see, tell her about birht network [if you have one] and wish her a positive birth experience. I like this a lot!! Great ideas.

:yep I can understand why! :eek This is one of those issues that, although gaining popularity, is still on the 'fringe' in the mainstream. I'm sure that will change too. But even some otherwise progressive birthers have trouble w/the idea of eating their placenta.

Have you seen this site - www.placentabenefits.com? It's really neat. They encapsulate dried placenta like a gelcap pill. I used to be weird about the thought of ingesting the placenta, but the more I have thought about it - we eat steaks, chicken, turkey, etc, and they are all foreign things with flesh. ??? People eat liver of animals because it's good for them (not me personally.) The other thought is that people are willing to put toxic, synthetic, foreign chemicals into their bodies to treat PP mood disorders, but they aren't willing to try something like this. It's most definitely a cultural barrier that could be detrimental.

Hey ladies :) I'm in the middle of starting a Birth Network down here with some other wonderful women to be coleaders with me. Maybe that is something you can start in your neck of the woods.

http://www.birthnetwork.org/chapter.htm


I think the majority of the women in this country are completely ignorant when it comes to birth. This is not an insult, but an observation that has been confirmed by many women I have talked to who have had a not great birth experience and fully admit that they were ignorant. If we want to change the world we need to get information to the main stream public that they dont see on tv or read in mainstream media.

This is why I have also started a network of sorts, mine however informs the public (everyday people who don't know what a doula is), what birth options are available in their area. We have new websites in TX, CO, CA, CT, NM and are trying to expand to the whole nation.

These sites give people information about birth options and then show providers in THEIR area, so expecting parents can contact them for more options. So even people who have never heard of a doula, or who have serious misunderstandings as to what a midwife does, or who need help with breastfeeding; these people can get information on what is available to them.

We advertise nationally so we can reach people who would not necessarily come in contact with our services.

For more information you can visit the business and marketing forum of Alldoulas and click on the banner ad at the top of the forum.

Jackie, I am interested in learning more, but I can't find it. Please help.

BirthNETWORK sort of does the same thing. The chapters produce a local resource guide that has providers in it that purchase business memberships and support the Mother-Friendly Childcare Initiative and CIMS.

The national website is BetterBirthAmerica.com.

The sites are different from the Birth Network groups in that the Better Birth sites give non-bias information on lots of different resources right on the site. I noticed that the Birth Network site only gives resources, which is great!, but I wanted to give people detailed info on the different options so that people who wouldn't normally look into natural birth might read about something and think it is a good idea.

I am planning to advertise in mainstream places that almost every pregnant woman looks at, not just those who are looking specifically for natural birth options.

I am hoping I can include the Birth Network websites in the Better Birth sites, I definitely did not create this resource to replace any existing birth networks, but to enhance and get them some attention.:)

I think that change can happen at many levels. In terms of birth I think one major thing that needs to happen is a change in the way insurance companies dictate and pay for things in hospitals. Also a change in our total healthcare system. I've been saying this for awhile but I don't really think you are going to see a swing to the opposite direction, and it is like a pendulem swinging back and forth until you see doctors being sued FOR intervening and something happens to the baby. Ina may has a lot to say about maternal death rates in this country and I think when women dying affects many people and people LEARN about it that will be an eye opener. (The death rate has risen steadily since 1982 and that is with non-mandatory reporting laws in this country). If OPRAH did a special on this topic we would see shifts. I believe that it is changing slowly. Look at how more popular doulas are today versus even 5 years ago. When I started as a doula 3 years ago I didn't think I could make a living doing this work. Now I am turning down births and with pospartum work, could very well make it a fulltime living. I work with pregnant teenagers as a social worker as well and I notice that what makes a difference for them in what they think when I first meet them is what their friends think and what their families does. So if my client has heard from everyone that she MUST have an epidural or she is insane...that is her only frame of reference...but if she has a mother who had natural childbirth and breastfed, she is much more likely to do the same. A little bit of education goes a long way, and I think that information to one person does ripple down. I try to hook all my clients up with doulas...so atleast they can be less likely of having a C-section which none of them want...then they can say to their friends...at my birth I had a doula and she helped me so much...and you shouldn't give birth without one! Anyone read Malcolm's Gladwell's book, The Tipping Point? I think it will change. Maybe I'm naive maybe I'm not jaded yet....but I sure hope what I am doing will filter to the next generation because it is my mission in life to prevent women from having traumatic births.

I needed this thread after a totally disastrous hospital birth last weekend. UGH. I found out that our hospital only sees 1-2 women per week who actually come in to the labor ward IN LABOR. And, of those 1-2 per week, every single one gets pit/epi or the epi. They have only seen 2 natural births since December; the two I did there! They said that is way more than they have seen in a long time. Usually it is only a couple a year. Our hospital does 150 births a month on average. That means that at least 142 of those women are scheduled inductions! WTF?!

I also found out some insider info from a nurse that our new hospital that is being built to replace the current one will only have 4 beds. We have 8 now. I asked if they were doing fewer births. She said that they are being strongly encouraged by insurance companies/hospital admins/OB's to "encourage" the moms along so that they can put more bodies in those beds. The fewer beds a hospital has when their birth load hasn't decreased means that it will almost be a "necessity" to pit these women to death and cut their babies out of them. A new mom came to my lll meeting last week who had just delivered there and the pit machine broke and she had a SIX MINUTE pitocin contraction. SIX MINUTES! The hospital apologized to her. That is it. Her baby's heart rate went down to 60BPM. UGH.

I tell you, this was the worst hospital birth I have ever done. The poor, poor mama who was left in a helpless situation and the f***ing hospital staff who lied straight to her face. UGH. The worst part, or maybe the best part because it has reignited my activist side, is the stats I learned from the nurses. I mean, I knew our local health care system was in the dumps, but man.

My question is, how in the world do you go on when faced with such things? I was literally the only voice of reason in that whole place. The system is so powerful it can sometimes leave you helpless. I was actually taken into the hallway and asked by hospital admins/head nurse to go in the room and lie to my client because they knew how much she trusted me. "Bite your tongue and tell her what we want her to do is the best"...I nearly spit in their faces and I told them, with a lot of unsavory language that I would never, never lie to any woman and if they wanted to perpetuate bad medicine they could have that on their karmic debt...ugh...

I am going to look into the birth network. The only thing I can hope is that we do make a difference, even if it is just one person at a time. Perhaps somebody in that hospital this weekend actually thought about something I said and took it with them? There is hope...

Do we have a vomit emoticon? that is disgusting!!! No wonder the US infant mortality numbers are so high.

Do you talk to your clients about homebirth?

I always talk to my clients about homebirth, but sadly, a lot of them hang onto a lot of fear about a non-hospital birth. I can tell you that every single hospital client I have had has sworn that the next time they are doing a homebirth. These were drug free hospital births too, and even then they are disgusted at the fight we had to fight to allow their births to progress semi-normally.

I am also very honest about the OB's and the hospital and what exactly you will have to do in order to get a birth similiar to the one you want. Most women, however, cling to the hope that the system isn't as bad as I say it is and that I am just jaded. I know after this last birth that I need to change my tactics a bit and really ,really try to convince these mamas of the fight they will need to fight. This last mama was the type who tried to get what she wanted by being reallllly nice to the staff..."I know I am a huuuuuuuuge bother, but I really, really wanna try it a bit longer"...that kind of stuff just doesn't work here. The staff sees it as a sign of weakness and they steamroll you. You have to be strong and unwavering.

I think a previous poster mentioned this, but I do not think things are going to change until mamas start suing docs BECAUSE they intervened. My last mama had a csection because of the stupid 24 hour H2O breaking rule. My logical point was that...huh...she has a very slightly higher infection chance now so you are going to perform a procedure on her that carries an extremely high infection rate?! Really, it came down to the doc wanting to be done with her. Her first doc came in the room and fired her as a patient because, "you won't allow me ultimate control over this birth". The new doc wanted to go home and has the highest C-section rate in town. Add to this a truly unsupportive dh (watching baseball, complaining about the time it was taking) and the doc/nurses trying to get me out of the room to convince her to do the PIt. It snowballed from there. The mama is furious and I am encouraging her to write letters to everyone who will listen. I really think that these docs need challenged. They need mamas to hold them accountable to their bad medicine practices. They need more lawsuits for their stupid interventions. A heart surgeon couldn't get away with giving a healthy heart medicine that would cause it to beat faster and harder, but an OB gives drugs all the time to increase the severity and intensity of a normally functioning muscle. I just don't get it...

Doctors have been sued for intervening. Check out the Angela Carder case, here's the link:

http://www.advocatesforpregnantwomen.org/articles/angela.htm

This is an infuriating case on so many levels!!!

Jamie

Holy Cow! That is so terrible on so many levels. I just can't even believe it. Whoa.

Holy Cow! That is so terrible on so many levels. I just can't even believe it. Whoa.
:yeahthat I think that it needs it's own thread for discussion. Care to start one?

F&*( Melba that is just so wrong, you must get so frustrated with it. I remember my first (and only) unnecaesarean. I went home a cried to my dh, I was so annoyed with their failure to wait. As it turned out by the time they got mum into theatre bub was in the birth canal. They used forceps to pull baby out through the incision, tore mums uterus and bladder and to add to her suffering the epidural had worn off so they TIED her to the table to stop her from moving as she screamed in agony. So when they bought bub around so she could see him, she couldn't even bring her hand up to touch him. What a welcome to motherhood!

I feel like I'm going to vomit when I read some of these stories... :(

I'm still thinking, reading and researching, but I hope I can bring change to my own little corner of this world. If all of us do that, eventually, our corners will overlap, and we'll see REAL change.