Is it all right to ask the parents to have the nurse and doctor fill out our eval forms or is that something we have to do? (I am going through DONA)

So far I have been asking the doc's & nurses myself...I feel the new parents have enough to think about at the time. However, if doc or nurse doesn't return it to me and I can't find them when it's time to go I do ask parents to remind them when they see them again if they think about it.
This part of persuing certification sucks, I hate chasing allready busy people to fill out my paper...especially since the doc is not there long and hardly knows who I am or what I do. I hear some doulas leave a self addressed and stamped envelope with eval. so the staff can just drop it in the mail after filling it out but I'm worried it will get lost with other paperwork.
Anyways, I'm interested in what other DONA doulas do.

With my evals, I always tried to catch the doc or nurse almost immediately after the delivery. There were a few times (about 4) that I had to leave a self addressed stamped envelope with my eval, and there was only one (a nurse) that did not return it to me. The others mailed it back to me though! Most of the other ones filled it out right away and gave it back to me before I left the hospital.

In my opinion, I wouldn't have the mom do it.....for the most part, the next time she going to see her doc is her six week check and most likely the doc is going to forget what you did for their patient six weeks earlier. It's better to get it completed when it's fresh in their mind.

HTH!!! Good luck!! :)

:bootyshak I know....I know.....as a CAPPA Certified Labor Doula, I am officially butting in!!! :razz :lol

I agree with Kelley: I just wanted to add that I had great success of taking my eval. forms for CAPPA to the Nurses desk soon after the deliveries. The Drs and nurses often are sitting at the Nurses station filling out paperwork right after the birth, so I apologized for the interuption and just asked them if they could possibly fill out my evaluation. They always did.....for every birth! If your DONA forms aren't too lengthy or complicated, then that might work for you, too! ;)

Ok....I'm done buttin' in! :bolt

I always got mom comfortable right after the birth (very quickly after the doctor leaves) and then would excuse myself for a few seconds and hunt down the doctor and then would introduce myself (if I hadn't already) and then would explain to them that I am working on certification and I would appreciate it if they could take a few moments and complete a few questions for my certification purpose based upon what they observed while we were in the room together. I always added that last part because if I didn't they would tend to say 'well I didn't see anything' but if I said the last part they felt more comfortable answering the questions based upon what they saw.

As far as giving the mom the form - I would never do that because by speaking with the doctor personally it really does give you the chance to get your name out there, and if the doctor likes you it is also a great opportunity for handing out business cards. Remember if you make a good impression on them then giving them your name could potentially lead to them giving your name to some of their other clients as well.

Plus putting the responsibility on the mother is something she might forget to do or she might not take it until her six week appointment at which time the doctor will most likely have completely forgotten who you were or what you did.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I guess it can't be that hard to track them down and have them fill out the form. I'm the most nervous about approaching the dr. It does make sense though that that's a good way for them to get to know who I am.

You know which kind of doc that was the most arrogant when I asked?? A resident :mad He was great during the delivery(even though he was there for a very short time)....but when I tracked him down, he was not very friendly. "Well, what did you do for my patient?" "How did you help her?" (In a very degrading tone) I kept very calm, although I was shaking like a leaf inside, and told him all what I did for my client. He was only fair on my evaluation, and he wrote, "didn't see much of what doula did for my client". Ugh....I didn't hand in his eval when I handed my certification stuff in. My other eval's from other docs and nurses were 4's and 5's (even the eval from the nurse from this particular birth mentioned above!)

You know which kind of doc that was the most arrogant when I asked?? A resident :mad

Oh I hate when people are like that. Sometimes I think they forget that we are all just people, and that they are not better than anyone else. I only had one doctor be a real jerk to me - I have had a few that were semi jerks, but not bad enough to bother me. The one that was a real jerk flat out refused to fill out my evaluation form. Here is what happened.

The birth was that of my niece, so I was there as both a sister and a doula, and after the birth the doctor left immediately for another birth, so I couldn't give him my form. My sister told me not to worry about it and she would get it filled out (first mistake LOL). Well, when she took it back at her 6 weeks check up he told her that I did nothing for her, and that she didn't need to "hire" a doula. My sister is one of those people where she believes "doctors are gods" so she wouldn't even speak up and say "that is my sister you are talking about" or "yes she did a lot for me." So when she told me I was crushed and angry. So like everything in my life I vent majorly and then come up with a plan LOL. I sat down and wrote out a letter to him detailing exactly what I did for "his" patient and then mailed that off with the evaluation form and a self addressed, stamped envelope. I didn't expect to hear back from him, but he sent back the form and gave me all fours (this was a DONA form, so the highest you can get is a 5).

To this day that doctor doesn't realize that a) he was the doctor who delivered my first three children and b) that I was her sister!!!

Oh I hate when people are like that. Sometimes I think they forget that we are all just people, and that they are not better than anyone else. I only had one doctor be a real jerk to me - I have had a few that were semi jerks, but not bad enough to bother me. The one that was a real jerk flat out refused to fill out my evaluation form. Here is what happened.

The birth was that of my niece, so I was there as both a sister and a doula, and after the birth the doctor left immediately for another birth, so I couldn't give him my form. My sister told me not to worry about it and she would get it filled out (first mistake LOL). Well, when she took it back at her 6 weeks check up he told her that I did nothing for her, and that she didn't need to "hire" a doula. My sister is one of those people where she believes "doctors are gods" so she wouldn't even speak up and say "that is my sister you are talking about" or "yes she did a lot for me." So when she told me I was crushed and angry. So like everything in my life I vent majorly and then come up with a plan LOL. I sat down and wrote out a letter to him detailing exactly what I did for "his" patient and then mailed that off with the evaluation form and a self addressed, stamped envelope. I didn't expect to hear back from him, but he sent back the form and gave me all fours (this was a DONA form, so the highest you can get is a 5).

To this day that doctor doesn't realize that a) he was the doctor who delivered my first three children and b) that I was her sister!!!

Yet another reason I plan to try homebirth, because I feel not only is it more intimate for the family but also the attendants are more personal, whereas in your situation I feel I would be instantly forgotten after the doctor left the room.

Yet another reason I plan to try homebirth, because I feel not only is it more intimate for the family but also the attendants are more personal, whereas in your situation I feel I would be instantly forgotten after the doctor left the room.

I agree with what you're saying, but I like to be open to attending ALL births (be it home, birth center, or hospital). In most areas of the country, homebirth just doesn't happen all that often. If I limited myself to only attending homebirths....I still wouldn't have attended one!!! ....Not to mention that mommas in the hospital could REALLY use a doula. Just thought I'd let you know why some of us end up attending more hospital births than anything else. Not by our choice....but by the moms'. ;)

I agree with what you're saying, but I like to be open to attending ALL births (be it home, birth center, or hospital). In most areas of the country, homebirth just doesn't happen all that often. If I limited myself to only attending homebirths....I still wouldn't have attended one!!! ....Not to mention that mommas in the hospital could REALLY use a doula. Just thought I'd let you know why some of us end up attending more hospital births than anything else. Not by our choice....but by the moms'. ;)
I am totally with you Lori!!! I think mamas in hospitals might need doulas even more because of what they have to go through whereas home birthing mamas usually have the nice, peaceful, respected births they desire.

How do I approach people (the MDs, RNs, etc) to do these evals for me? I know when my sister had her baby, the OB was in and out like a flash! And I would hate to appear like that's my 'priority'...chasing after people for evals, trying to catch them before they leave while mom's legs are still up in the air. Lol

What's the proper etiquette, please?

In all honesty - after a birth the doctor has paperwork to fill out, so typically I would get mom comfy and excuse myself for a few minutes. I would then go out to where the doctor was sitting, say "excuse me, I know you are very busy and as if he/she could fill out my evaluation based upon what he/she saw me doing because I was working on certification.

I hope more experienced doulas will respond as well but I have heard a good way to approach the doctor is with the eval in a self addressed stamped envelope. Say "if you have time to fill this out now that would be great but if not could you please fill it out and drop it in the mail." Maybe type up a little note to add in there just in case you miss the doctor. Maybe the nurse would be willing to pass it on in that event.

Oh, both of those are great ideas...thanks!

I did what TLC recommended -- the doc is usually filling our paperwork at the main desk, ro whatever, so if mom was okay, I would go out there and say "I am certifying through DONA, and I have this evaluation I need filled out, it will take you less than a minute. If you could do that for me I would really appreciate it. You can just leave it here at the desk for me."

A few points:
-Say it will take less than a minute to fill out -- you don't want them to feel like they have more paperwork to do
-Be sweet and smiley!
-Be brief!

Of course with nurses and midwives you generally don't have the same issue, but if you feel they are a bit hustled, you can give them the same spiel. Often with them, they are in the room longer, so there will be time before the birth to mention you are certifying and that afterwards you have something for them to look over.

It can be intimidating, but don't fret! They are people, and even a bad eval or no eval can be okay with a doctor (I had one where the doctor did not circle any numbers and he wrote, "Did not see doula's interactions with patient; patient had epidural for pain relilef." I was a bit peeved at first, but he was only there about 25 minutes, and he noted that -- during the whole 12 hours I was there; he really did not see much of anything! So I had an excellent nurse's eval, and she had been there the whole time to see it. That's why doc/nurses evals have to come together, but a midwife's can be alone).

I did have to send one to a doctor once, and I was worried. Actually the mom started with a midwife (should I say "med-wife!") and ended up with a cesarean. I sent one to the midwife and the doctor. The midwife's was pretty poor, she was a hag! But the doctor's was excellent. I picked up one from the nurse just in case I needed to use the doctor's; I did end up using the doctor's. Luckily that medwife no long delivers babies! She was yucky :(, and not just because she gave me a poor eval, she was the most anti-midwife I have ever seen!

Edited to add: When I sent these evals I wrote a nice schmoozy letter describing my client, I said something genuine about the provider (in the case of the hag midwife I said my client really felt a connection with her, as she felt she did, although afterwards my client did say next time she would meet a few other midwives in the area!), and then I said why I needed the eval. I also enclosed a sase for their convenience. I was surprised I got them both back!

Thanks for posting this.. I havent even thought about how to get the evals yet!

Is this form in my certification packet we order? I can't seem to find it on DONA.org?

Yes. I don't think they have it on their site...I just ordered my packet and it should arrive this week...yay!

Thanks for posting this.. I havent even thought about how to get the evals yet!

Is this form in my certification packet we order? I can't seem to find it on DONA.org?


Dona used to have the form on the web site but they must have taken it off because I can't find it. But yes, the form is in the packet.

Susan

I did exactly what Stacie and Michelle did. All of my evalutations have been filled out at the nurses' desk/station very shortly after I made sure mom was comfortable and briefly excused myself (that's where the Drs, Midwives, and nurses all sat to do their paperwork after each birth). It truly didn't take more than a minute or two, so noone seemed to mind. I was back with mom before she could hardly realize that I was gone. I never had to mail an eval.; I would've been nervous about getting it back, I'm sure.

What about the parents? Do you generally ask them to fill them out at the 1st pp visit?

What about the parents? Do you generally ask them to fill them out at the 1st pp visit?


Yes, I do.

Susan

I hope more experienced doulas will respond as well but I have heard a good way to approach the doctor is with the eval in a self addressed stamped envelope. Say "if you have time to fill this out now that would be great but if not could you please fill it out and drop it in the mail." Maybe type up a little note to add in there just in case you miss the doctor. Maybe the nurse would be willing to pass it on in that event.
Honestly, I have heard from a lot of doulas who said that typically you don't get the evals back this way. I know a good number of the ladies I trained have all complained about not getting the evals back from doctors and nurses when you give them an envelope because reality is that they are off to the next birth and forget who you were and what you did. It is best to get a good rapport going with them from the start and when you take the evals explain that you know they are busy, but it is only a few questions, etc.

I know for me, when I took them to them I never had a doctor say no, but the one time that I gave a self addressed stamped envelope I never heard back from that doctor. Remember they are very busy and when you leave their site they quickly forget who the heck you are especially since you will only be in the room with them for a very, very short period of time. If you actually talk to them then if they say that they didn't see you do anything that gives you the opportunity to explain what you did for their patient. Something like this:

doctor "well I didn't really see you doing anything"

you "yes, I know that we were in the room together for such a short period of time, but while <insert name> was in labor I spent time with her massaging her back, applying counterpressure, etc."

Being in person opens up the chance for dialogue and also can get you a little more cemented in the doctor's head. I know that I got the opportunity to work again with one of the certifying doctors and the funny thing was that when she walked in she remembered me right away - I think it was because I talked to her. The other doctors I worked with and never talked to never seemed to notice me. Plus if they have a patient looking for a doula she will remember you and pass along your name.

My first two births have been in the last two weeks at the same hospital and neither DR has done my evaluations! Both nurses did and I got 5's all the way down so I'm pretty sure that it's not that they thought I sucked. The first DR said she doesn't "do evaluations". The second said that she'd absolutly do it, thanked me for everything I'd done, invited me to the OR for a c-section which is against hospital policy and then still didn't do it. After the c-sec at 3:30am, she left right away and went to the oncall sleeping room. I left an envelope and stamp with the charge nurse so there's hope....

So my real question? How do you get them completed? How pushy have you had to be? Do you wait for the form or ask for them to send it back to you via mail? I'm seriously considering attaching them to a plate of cookies or something!

Tracy,

I feel your frustration, it took me 15 births to complete my certification. I had to find the right doctors and assess the situation to see if docs had seen enough of me to evaluate.

Stick to it, it will come. Just make sure that you have a copy or 2 of the eval so that if you don't get them back you have some on havd for the next time. Just be polite and take whatever they say with a smile, even if you are crushed. And a little bribery may get you what you want. ;). Good luck, and it will happen when it needs to.

I usually ask them while they're ready to do paperwork. Right after they're done w/ the Mom I say, "Excuse me Dr. _____, I know you're busy, but would you mind filling out a quick eval for me? It's only 5 questions.
I haven't had one say No yet. Although, one doc said he filled it out for me, then it was no where to be found :shrug I didn't have the energy to chase it down.

I found that waiting till they are done w/their reports and politlely asking for the evaluation to be filled out works rather well. That way you have them back asap and they wont get lost (unless you loose them!).
BTW, I tell them early on that I will be asking for this so it isn't a surprise. Either at a prenatal meeting or when we first arrive at the birthing place. Helps some I think.

So my real question? How do you get them completed? How pushy have you had to be? Do you wait for the form or ask for them to send it back to you via mail? I'm seriously considering attaching them to a plate of cookies or something!
The cookies might work, or chocolate, or gourmet coffee!

Don't be afraid to call the Dr., stop by the office w/a new eval. sheet, or send in a friendly little reminder note. They are busy and most likely will forget, out of sight- out of mind. Maybe send the Dr. a nice Thank You for allowing you into the OR and just a foot note tell them how important the eval. is for your cert. as a reminder.

My first two births have been in the last two weeks at the same hospital and neither DR has done my evaluations! Both nurses did and I got 5's all the way down so I'm pretty sure that it's not that they thought I sucked. The first DR said she doesn't "do evaluations". The second said that she'd absolutly do it, thanked me for everything I'd done, invited me to the OR for a c-section which is against hospital policy and then still didn't do it. After the c-sec at 3:30am, she left right away and went to the oncall sleeping room. I left an envelope and stamp with the charge nurse so there's hope....

So my real question? How do you get them completed? How pushy have you had to be? Do you wait for the form or ask for them to send it back to you via mail? I'm seriously considering attaching them to a plate of cookies or something!

Traci, I've run into the same thing. I haven't got one eval done by the Dr or Midwife at our area hospitals. I have a birth coming up at Sutter Davis and am hopeful that the MW will be willing to do an eval. Then I have one at Sutter Roseville and am hoping, hoping, hoping. If I can get the evals for those then I'll have my 3 births. The first was a homebirth with my mentor midwives so no problems there. :shrug Hopefully someone here at :alldoulas will have some good suggestions for us. :hug

One eval my client was kind enough to take it to the dr at her 6 week visit. Another I slipped out of the room for 5 min just after baby was born. It worked out well because it gave mom and dad a minute alone with baby. She started nursing right away so once that got going I stepped out. One nurse eval I had to go back to the hospital and ask her to fill it out. It took a couple of visits because she wasn't there the first time I tried but she ended up giving me the best eval of all of the nurses.

When I was doing my certification births I made sure that the mama let the doctor know ahead of time that I was going to be doing the birth for certification and therefore needed them to fill out a short eval. I offered to send a sample eval along so that she could show the doctor so that he/she didn't think it was extensive. Then when the birth came I would get mama and baby nestled together and nursing and would step out and approach the doctor with my evaluation form. I would explain that I know he/she was very busy but I would appreciate it if they could take a few minutes to fill out the evaluation form, blah, blah, blah. They always did it and gave it right back to me.

I only had one doctor that I missed and then he refused to do it when my sister asked him (she didn't push the issue), so I sent him a nice letter detailing what benefits I did with his patient (my sister) and asked him if he would consider filling out the eval and mailing it back to me - he did.

BTW, I tell them early on that I will be asking for this so it isn't a surprise. Either at a prenatal meeting or when we first arrive at the birthing place. Helps some I think.

That sounds like a good idea. :thumbs

For my first certification birth, I approached the Doctor right after she had finished her paperwork and was about to leave. I had the form on a clipboard, which I think helped. I asked her if she had a moment, but also told her I had a SASE and she could mail it back to me. It looked like she was thinking "there is no way I want to deal with filling something out and mailing it" and agreed to fill out the form right away.

I really like the idea of having clients forewarn their Dr.'s.

Thanks for all this great information. I was wondering what you do about this very situation. My first birth was with a midwife that I know very well so I know I won't have a problem getting evals. filled out, but I'm wondering what I will do when my birth is at a hospital.

My problem has been at the hospital- the one I've been two twice (and my next two births are there as well)- the docs run in to catch and run back out. THey're nearly impossible to find and they don't do the follow up care with the mom later that day either. I've tried tackling them when they come in the door but that didn't work for birth #2 because it was an emergency and I did not want to interrupt in any way.

So- birth #1 the dr straight out said no. Birth #2 the nurse did a great eval, I'd asked her to have the dr do it too she said she would. No eval. So I mailed the dr a thank you card with another eval. I'm also sending my client to her 6 week appt with that dr with the eval too... hey she said she was so grateful she'd do anything... that was all I could think of :-)

I'll let you know if it works!

I'm so glad you brought this up. I was wondering the same thing and didn't realize that the dr's and mw's were so reluctant to do a five question eval! I know they are busy, but geeze! I plan on using these suggestions. I think bringing it up ahead of time is great, unless they are not the dr that is on-call for the delivery, in which case if it doesn't get done at the hopsital or birthing center right after the birth, having your client take it with them to their pp check-up and having them fillit out then is an excellent idea!
Ash
P.S. And I would guess that cookies never hurt! lol :P

BTW I would hand them the eval on a clip board so they got the idea I was going to wait for it!

to the doctor and they filled them out on the spot. As much as I hated it, I was very motivated to get the evals done and in my hands. What I really hated....just after the birth I started thinking..."how can I make sure the doctor doesn't leave before I hit him/her up for the eval."

Tina

Occasionally, I have found during slow stages of labor, when nurses or midwives are writing up paperwork, getting areas set up, etc., I casually approach them and briefly tell them that I am pursuing my labor doula certification and if they are still on-shift after the birth, I would appreciate a few minutes of their time to have a short evaluation of my services filled out. I recently worked with a cranky nurse, who thanked me for the heads-up and gave me all excellent ratings when she finished her shift (conveniently, just after the baby was born)! Of course, this would not work in all situations, but during the right time and place, can be much appreciated.

Kelly Klein
Labor Doula, DONA
Childbirth Educator in-training, ALACE
Empowered Mamas Doula Care
empowered.mamas@gmail.com

Evaluations were always a hard one for me. There are 3 OBs here, nobody else that catches, and you (mom in labour) gets whoever is on-call, so the idea of telling the Dr prenatally (which I love) won't work here.

Generally, the Dr is called when baby is crowning, s/he will have seen mom near admittance (assuming s/he is in the hospital), but if mom comes in late in the game, crowning may be when Dr meets mom.

Dr is usually out the door again within 5 mins of the delivery of the placenta and either onto the next mom/room or back to the clinic or back to bed. I rarely catch him/her doing charting, I honestly don't know when that is done.