Doula or not?

MindOverLaborDoulas · 08-09-2006, 11:15 PM

I am not trying to flame, I just wanted to share what I received from the childbirth swap site.
This was sent by alegraelaine@yahoo.com . I know that so many of us are hard up for money and if I were planning on swapping or buying from someone I would want to know what I would be getting myself into.....

Hello Fellow Doulas,
I am a new doula living in california who has just had a very bad experience due to the
action of a doula you may know living in Austin. I purchased an aquadoula tub from Luna
Wood of Vidaluna, off of the childbirth swap site on yahoo, I paid 450+100 shipping. I
was planning on using the tub as a rental for customers, after I used it for my own second
birth which will be any day. Of course, one of my first questions was the condition. Luna
Wood said the condition was "good" that it was "just like the one on the aquadoula site"
and that it came with "all the attachments needed" . For what I was paying I expected a
used but functional and safe tub "like the one on the site" . What arrived on our doorstep
was a complete shock to us. We at first were told by the aqua doula folks that we didn't
even have an a.d. tub because it had no identifying labels. Later, an owner called back to
verify that actually what we had "should be in a museum" and was one of the first a.d.
prototypes made 13 years ago. On top of being nothing like the later models, this relic
has a melted and broken heater that is falling off the side, Luna sent us a newer patched
liner that is 2 FEET too small, ie. would never fit over foam. According to the owner at
A.D. you cannot get liners to fit this size tub. All in All, Luna sent us a completely
worthless and un-useable piece of junk. The Aqua doula people felt so bad they,
unbeknownst to us, found a midwife near us that still had a tub available to rent(which my
partner will spend working weekends to trade for payment we no longer have.). They also
sent us a quote of repairs, which is over 500 dollars, (what we paid for this thing) ie. it's
totaled.
Luna Wood made a bad decision to try and get away with selling something to someone in
california that she knew was not what she was advertising, I guess she hoped that by some
miracle her actions would not backfire. I have surrendered to the fact we probably won't
see our money again, (and that hurts). But, regardless, her actions in my view were
extremely irresponsible and heartless as she knew how eagerly I awaited my tub so I could
birth the way I envisioned. How could a woman calling herself a doula do this to another?
This is what I have not reconciled in my mind and heart. The last thing a 10 month
pregnant woman wants is any bad mojo, I feel in order to clear myself of these feelings I
should not let her get away with this untarnished. I gave her plenty of opportunity to
refund us, I warned her that I would share my story if, by today, she did not agree to
refund. She has chosen unwisely again. No doubt she will attempt to dilute and confuse
reality in trying to defend herself. I have no motive to spend my time doing this, however,
except for deep shock and hurt, I think that is obvious. Perhaps some pressure and
feedback from her local community will convince her to rethink what she's done, at the
least I hope the warning gets put out that there is a dishonest doula very near to you. If
any of you want further clarity I will have pictures avail. and the a.d. quote. Thank You for
hearing my story, Sincerely, Paula Wright

AussieDoula · 08-10-2006, 12:19 AM

It's quite unprofessional to sell a 13 year old tub and misrepresent it by saying it is just like the recent models shown on the website when you know it isn't.

Terrible!

Unfortunately, the sad truth of things is "buyer beware".
Personally, I would have asked for photographs to accompany a complete description of the condition and functionability of the item I was buying. Every person's interpretation of condition is different. Saying the tub is in "good condition" can vary in accuracy.

I would have to see full reports of the correspondence between them to see whether the right questions were asked or if the seller really was deliberately being elusive and dishonest before passing full judgement.
Having pictures to view and the Aqua Doula quote available doesn't do anything to prove that the buyer was thorough in investigating the quality of the product she was buying (as she should have - and maybe she did, I wouldn't know unless I viewed complete emails between them).

Sure, the buyer can be viewed as unethical for trying to offload an older tub and being vague in it's description, but she is only partially (if at all) responsible for the seller's own mistake in overlooking detail.

I hope it works out for everyone.

tlcdoula · 08-10-2006, 12:33 AM

Unfortunately this woman is posting this everywhere! It was posted on the dona website too, and I think it is unethical to bring her issues to everyone else. What is she trying to prove by posting this other than to make herself look bad? I know that she is trying to make the seller look bad and to "warn" others about the seller, but in my eyes it makes her look bad!!!

First of all we do not know every single thing that went down. We do not know the description that the seller posted nor do we know the questions they asked back and forth. We do not know anything other than that this woman is angry and is flaming another online in public forums which I think is wrong.

AussieDoula · 08-10-2006, 01:06 AM

Oh, Michelle, I agree!
It is completely understandable that this woman is hurt but there is a difference between venting and spreading damaging information that is evidently incomplete.
In her post, she admits to being a new Doula, and it clearly shows through these types of emotionally-led actions.

It's frustrating to feel like you have been taken advantage of, but it's your own responsibility as a buyer to make sure that the source is legitimately representing their merchandise accurately (not saying that didn't happen in this case, but like I said earlier we can't know and base judgements without evidence).

1stimestar · 08-10-2006, 01:20 AM

Yep I've seen it posted everywhere including my own list. I allowed it with no compunction. This woman was had and has little recourse. She offers to share the complete conversations and description given by the other person. This other person knew she was planning to use it right away for her own birth. I think it IS appropriate to go before a jury of her peers. Anyways, it will blow over. I am glad she was able to get another in time for her birth.

AussieDoula · 08-10-2006, 01:53 AM

Do you know if the seller, Luna Wood, is certified through anyone? If so, I think it should have become a formal complaint first.
Georganne, have you seen the correspondence shared between them? Guess I'll have to email her, hehe.

RosyDoula · 08-10-2006, 01:57 AM

This is too bad. No wonder my hubby doesn't trust me buying anything online.

tlcdoula · 08-10-2006, 07:49 AM

I guess the way I see it is that it isn't a jury of her peers because words spoken are heresay, and reality is I wouldn't be thrilled if now Luna went out there and started sharing her side of the story. Honestly this woman says that if not responded to by a certain day she will spread who the doula is - what if this doula is at a birth and could not respond? After all the first posts on the DONA board weren't that far apart from when the new doula spread the name, etc.

We have all been to long births, have life circumstances that got in the way to responding to an email, etc. What if the doula was unavailable to respond and now she is being slammed and we only got one side of the story because verbal information would be heresay. Yes, you can share e-mails, but hopefully they weren't only communicating via e-mail because we all know meaning can be lost.

doula Michele · 08-10-2006, 08:40 AM

Yes, I have seen it on other lists I am on...
I think the way she is handeling it is a bit immature.
Its always a case of buyer beware, and the place to handle it may be in small claims court...not by tarnishing someones name.

Michele

jesscardona · 08-10-2006, 09:02 AM

That is just terrible.. I dont know, that's why you have to be so careful with these things...

Jilian · 08-10-2006, 10:50 AM

I think it is terrible that she was misled. I agree that it is VERY important to investigate thouroughly before you buy something online, especially when it is that expensive. I'm happy she was able to get another tub in time for her own birth.

I think that maybe she's trying to warn others about doing business with this woman, but I think she's going about it in the rong way. Two wrongs do not make a right. It's hard not to be judgemental after hearing a story like this, but I'm trying to keep in mind that it is only ONE side of the story.

MindOverLaborDoulas · 08-12-2006, 12:07 PM

I thought that since I received the other side of the story that it is only fair if I post it here also.

Fellow Doulas,

It upsets me very much that I would be attacked on this list in this way.
I have an excellent reputation here in Austin and have never tried to just rip people off. I actually sold another tub on this list and it was a smooth and satisfying transaction.

I have actually responded to Paula several times and was spoken to with great hostility. When I tried to remedy the situation all I got was threats that I would be hung out to dry and she even threated to put out an ad in the local Austin papers about my "shadiness." I have been a doula in this community for 16 years and I would never try to hurt someone or make a buck off of them in this way. I would'nt have chosen this profession if I was of this caliber.

I don't appreciate being trashed on this list and I actually got an email from a fellow doula that Paula was questioning my certification because my name wasn't on the DONA list. She has made alot of assumptions about me and I feel has been very inappropriate in terms of handling this transaction.

Sincerely ,
Luna Wood

AussieDoula · 08-12-2006, 12:24 PM

I'm glad you posted a follow-up and that most of us here didn't jump to conclusions.

Yay for us! LOL!
I would still be interested to see the actual emails they had between them though, hehe...

tlcdoula · 08-12-2006, 01:10 PM

Honestly this is a subject that I think the two of them need to work out on their own. Like I originally said there are always two sides to every story and to be perfectly honest I do not think it was very doula like of the woman who slammed Luna.

Personally I think when you have a disagreement it is always better to keep it between the two people because when it gets presented as it did to me I looked poorly upon the woman who was doing the slamming and not Luna. Now that might just be me, but that is how I always look at it, especially because this woman went into full attack mode almost immediately and didn't just post about her problem in one forum, but took it to as many forums as she could find.

MothertheMother · 08-12-2006, 01:18 PM

I have to say if a fellow doula misrepresented something to me like that and I felt as cheated as this doula seems to feel I would probably do the same thing. Of course we don't know the full situation but $450 for a tub that you can't even get a liner for seems unfair. But who really knows....