debate: your house or mine

raeben · 08-11-2009, 04:42 PM

so now that we have a placenta specific forum (yay!!! i'm still geeking out over this) i want to start a conversation about the legal and logistical pros and cons of doing placenta encapsulation (or other placenta preparations) in the clients home vs. in your (the preparers) home.

i know PBi trains it's specialists to do it in the clients home but it seems like everyone else does it in their own home. issues have been brought up about the legalities of transporting but i've never seen any actual codes or rules sited that would apply. what if the hospital (OB, dr, MW or nurse) gives it to you? what if the client gives it to you and signs a waiver? what if you just have the client transport it? there are also issues that fall more under the scope of food handling too but those also seem somewhat nebulous.

tell me what you know and why you do what you do - rules, logistics or other reasons.

mrslifeofreilly · 08-11-2009, 04:45 PM

I'm interested to hear the responses. My midwife did it at her home (she took it home after the birth and we picked up the pills). There was no form or contract for her to do it for me - I just asked her to do it and she did.

If I do start encapsulating I'd want to do it in my home. With two small children and being a 1 car family, it is difficult enough to go/be away for births (which is why I'm limiting the number I do for now) but then extra time away for this would be too much and I would have to charge too much.

raeben · 08-12-2009, 07:09 PM

i have a homebirthing friend due soon who is really excited about having her placenta done so i am going to do it at her house. normally though, i do it at my own house mostly for logistical reasons.

- i know i have enough easily cleanable space - i have a large empty kitchen island that i can do everything on and then totally bleach. most people don't have enough counter space and i'd feel bad spraying bleach on their antique table. same for the sink - mine is large enough i can submerge everything in bleach water after scrubbing but some people have little sinks. i have a dishwasher that i run everything through after bleaching and not everyone has a dishwasher either.

- i usually do my placenta work in the evening after the kids are in bed and no one is cooking. clients probably wouldn't want me hanging out in their kitchen at 11pm and other times i would have to get a babysitter and worry about getting in their way.

- i remember what my kitchen looked like immediately postpartum. if i have to wash 2 loads of dishes just to do have enough space to work in their kitchen, then maybe i should also charge for postpartum hours.

- when given the choice between my house and theirs, all of my clients besides my homebirth friend strongly prefer me to do it at my house. most of my clients hire me to do it because they just don't want to deal with it - they don't want placenta smell or strange "placenta ladies" in their house, they just want a finished product.

- if a mom has a 24 to 48 hour hospital stay and their placenta is able to be released immediately, i can do it at my house and have it pretty much done before they even get home. the placenta is prepared at peak "freshness", the mom gets her medicine asap to help with recovery quicker and everybody wins.

raeben · 08-12-2009, 07:13 PM

PBi ladies, i'd love to hear how you all handle the cleaning aspects as well as specifics on what rules and regulations you are following.

DoulaMorgan · 08-20-2009, 03:09 PM

Well, with PBi, I know the general "rule" is at your home. But when I was trying to figure out how to get it done WITHOUT my mom around, my MW was willing to take it home. So, I think it's kind of one of those things that matter technically, but the spirit of the law is, do what works.

DoulaMorgan · 08-20-2009, 03:10 PM

Oh, I think if it hadn't been MY mw doing it, whom I knew SO well, I wouldn't have wanted it done at my house either. I would have strongly preferred to be delievered with a final product.

Garden Doula · 08-24-2009, 05:07 PM

I had a client who is birthing in a hospital ask me to do hers... It will be my first so I'm doing it for free. I will likely do it at my house for the reasons that you mentioned- it will be clean, all the equipment will be there and I will not have to deal with storing the placenta until she is released from the hospital- it will be done and I can do her PP visit and have the placenta ready for her!

I'm soooo excited!

TO Doula · 10-10-2009, 03:50 PM

I'm coming back to this thread because I'm now working on a page for my website and thinking about offering this more formally (I've done one and have three more lined up for doula clients so I'm not worried about formalities with them, but if I want to invite the general public I want to have some of their questions answered for myself before I get going.)

So I'm thinking that kitchen space and smell are downsides for doing it in my own home. The steaming was fine because of the lemon and ginger, but after a couple of hours of dehydrating there was a vague funky smell and taste in the air. I did not enjoy my lunch that day. =:-O

I have all my equipment in a rubbermaid bin that I can pick up and take anywhere, so that would make it easy to do it at the client's home. But I'm thinking about travel time, and having to go back and forth since I can't do it all in one visit unless I'm going to camp out there all day. I'm thinking about privacy for the new family who will find someone witchdoctoring in their kitchen every time they need a glass of water. And I'm thinking about the women who have cesareans who won't even be home for three or four days, so by the time I can get in there and do the work the placenta will no longer be as fresh as it could be. I'm also thinking about freaking out grandparents etc who might not be quite as open to the idea - I have one client who isn't sure whether she's even going to tell her husband that she's having it done because he's squeamish!

So I think I'm going to offer clients a choice of prep location, with a preference for doing it at my place. I might try setting up the dehydrator in the basement next time and see if that reduces the impact of the smell. I rather like the idea of making the placenta disappear (for my birth clients) and then presenting them with a final product. Other clients could have a friend or family member drop it off at my place in the day or two after the birth and I could have it back to them by the time those first blues hit around day 4 or 5.

So that's my current thinking.

Hallielynn01 · 10-11-2009, 09:20 PM

Im curious if there are any actual legal guidelines myself.

Ive done one so far. I did it at my house and really liked it. I picked it up, and prepared if after my family went to bed. It was really nice, I lit candles, turned in calming music and got to work. I liked not having anyone watching me to be honest. I liked that I wasn't in the way of a new mom, I was able to dry over night and check on it as much as I needed. I was able to go to work, got home, finished the grinding and encapsulating then went to drop it off. Had a short visit with the mom (she wanted to talk about her birth) then headed home.I didn't notice a whole lot of problem with the smell. Or at least it didn't really bother me. I liked not having to haul anything anywhere too. I was able to relax and really put positive energy into every action and step of the process because I was relxed and create a sacred space for myself. Im not sure I could do that in someone else's home. KWIM?

With PBi, is it a requirement of their certification to do it in the mother's home?

raeben · 10-12-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallielynn01

With PBi, is it a requirement of their certification to do it in the mother's home?

yup.

Hallielynn01 · 10-12-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raeben

yup.

Good to know, as I weigh out my options. I REALLY liked doing it the way that I did. Ill have to think about it!

TO Doula · 10-13-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritedDoula

That makes me think twice at PBi because my hubby doesn not want me doing it home, he is a but grossed out by the idea of cooking placenta. I did however, have an offer by some local midwives to let me work at their birth center in their enclosed kitchen. It is a home converted into a birth center, I wonder if that would count because its not my home or the mothers home? hmmmm...

I'm not sure, but I think there's some confusion here. PBI says to do it at the client's home. So your husband would not be bothered by it. Doing at a birth centre would still involve transporting the organ, which I assume is PBI's concern, so would not appear to be in accordance with their regulations. But you'd have to check with PBI to be sure - and I'm guessing that kind of question should wait until at least next week when the new course comes out!

Although if organ transportation was the primary concern, it should be okay to do in our own homes if the parents are prepared to drop it off to us - then the people legally related to the organ would be the only ones transporting it. Hmm...

Perhaps the concern is cross-contamination? But then if you're doing the prep in the client's home but using your own equipment, contamination is still something you'd need to control for.

Okay I give up - what is the deal the client's-house-only rule?

mamakim · 10-13-2009, 02:44 PM

From my understanding....
Here in NV the health dept. investigated Jodi (PBI) as the process was usually pick up the placenta then drop off final product. We had 2 lawsuits with hospitals her in NV and her business was getting ALOT of publicity, so of course it got a lot of attention from health officials. They told her that what she was doing was fine but she had to adhere to OSHA guidelines and do it in the clients home to ensure no cross contamination, mixing of placentas, or mix up of placentas if you so happen to be doing multiple. So it was to appease local laws and the training put in place I'm sure is to keep everything the same. I am not a PES through the training process that ladies in other states go through, Jodi is just a friend, I'm just a midiwfe that believes in it's benefits and helps her out.

Brie+3 · 10-13-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mamakim

From my understanding....
Here in NV the health dept. investigated Jodi (PBI) as the process was usually pick up the placenta then drop off final product. We had 2 lawsuits with hospitals her in NV and her business was getting ALOT of publicity, so of course it got a lot of attention from health officials. They told her that what she was doing was fine but she had to adhere to OSHA guidelines and do it in the clients home to ensure no cross contamination, mixing of placentas, or mix up of placentas if you so happen to be doing multiple. So it was to appease local laws and the training put in place I'm sure is to keep everything the same. I am not a PES through the training process that ladies in other states go through, Jodi is just a friend, I'm just a midiwfe that believes in it's benefits and helps her out.

Kim, you may know more than me, but I am trying to remember Jodi's story about it, but I also believe she was approached by the FDA as well as the local health department.

raeben · 11-03-2009, 10:09 PM

so i've been looking for a commercial triple sink to install in my basement so that i can do it out of my families space and to better comply with health code regs. i just got a nice big one from a bar remodel for $95!!! yeaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!

anyway, in my research i came across a bunch of craigslist adds from people able to build a fully equipped mobile food cart or taco truck for like $3000 to $7000. food carts are all the rage here - basically an old airstream trailer or 5th wheel that has been gutted and turned into a commercial (health department approvable) mobile kitchen. i started thinking how rad it might be to have a mobile placenta processing truck to do placentas in. you could do it right outside of the clients house but not be all up in their personal space, you could do it front of the hospital even! hows that for spreading the placenta gospel!

3000 and up does sound like a lot of cash but if you split it with another placenta lady in your area or something... or it sounds like PBi takes a fair percentage out of their specialists fees - for people like me who aren't with PBi, i could just take out like $30 per placenta and buy one of those self-promotion machine in 2 years. i dunno, sounds like a cool idea to me. what do you think of the placenta truck solution to this problem?