Oral Vit. K

MyDoulaStacia · 11-10-2006, 01:34 PM

My last client read up on and wanted Oral Vit. K for their child.
We put it in the birthplan but it was the only thing they were unable to have.
The nurse called the pharmacy at the hospital and they didnt carry it.
My clients choose not to have the baby receive the shot at the hospital since they waited almost 10 minutes before cutting the cord and she was nursing.
However, the pedicatrican on call insited on speaking with them and scared them with tales of brain hemoraging if they didn't take the shot.

So needless to say the put the baby through the pain which they were hoping to avoid so the doctor would lay off the terrible parent kick.
After the shot the baby wouldn't nurse for more than a few seconds before pulling off to cry and starting over again.

I know it's a routine proceedure but don't you think more hosptials should have the oral on hand?
What about your hospitals?

fearlessbirth · 11-10-2006, 02:01 PM

I read about oral Vit K all the time in midwifery/gentle birthing books but have yet to ever see it used.

chocolatedoula · 11-10-2006, 04:45 PM

So this is what I've learned recently about oral vit. K. I have a client who's a NICU nurse and she was telling us that the same product that they put in the shot of vit. K can be given orally. The thing about that is that they have to give follow up doses which they don't have to do with the shot. This information is relatively new and I'm sure they don't want the general public to know about this. The chance of the infant actually receiving the follow up doses goes down with people who don't regularly go to their doctor. So to avoid unnecessary infant mortality it is easier to give the shot. The parents have to be certain they will be able to follow up - and I think it's two more doses.

I'm not sure if the oral vit. K that we've all heard about is the same stuff that they use in the shots. I have a feeling it's not. However, now that I have this new info about being able to orally consume the shot, I think it's something to ask your doc about. For those of you who surf through medical journals with ease, you could probably find something about this. Keep in mind, I live in Canada, so I'm not sure about other countries.
Cheers!

fearlessbirth · 11-10-2006, 04:55 PM

Since we're on the subject of Vit K, what is it for exactly? I mean I know it helps blood coagulate/clot but why would a baby 'need' it. Is it one of those things where they only a small % of babies 'might' have some disorder where they don't make enough so they give it to all of them? Is the only reason a parent might NOT want to have their baby take the shot because of the pain? (I know many people my age and younger, plus those people's children who were all homebirthed, didn't have Vit K and never had a problem being with out)

MothertheMother · 11-10-2006, 08:19 PM

well, circ'd boys need it for obvious reasons. One horrible analogy I have heard was if you get into a car accident or something with the baby and he/she hasn't had the shot then that could cause a serious problem with bleeding. Seems like a pretty far fetched reason to get it if you ask me. I don't know for sure but I have heard that the oral dose isn't as effective but I think the reason given was they can't be sure, as with a shot, that the baby actually swallowed all of it.

RosyDoula · 11-10-2006, 08:54 PM

I feel if babie's needed it, nature would have them chock full of it naturally. Its in breastmilk too.

Kim Trower · 11-11-2006, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearlessbirth

Since we're on the subject of Vit K, what is it for exactly? I mean I know it helps blood coagulate/clot but why would a baby 'need' it. Is it one of those things where they only a small % of babies 'might' have some disorder where they don't make enough so they give it to all of them? Is the only reason a parent might NOT want to have their baby take the shot because of the pain? (I know many people my age and younger, plus those people's children who were all homebirthed, didn't have Vit K and never had a problem being with out)

Babies are not born with Vitamin K (and I'm sure there is a reason, we are pretty sophisticated creatures). Look up Newborn Hemmorhagic Disease for more information on why they want to give it to your baby. The actually Vitamin K is not the problem it is the preservatives that are in the shot, yes it causes pain to stick the baby, but more importantly at what cost. The baby may have a reaction to the fillers...it is just another thing to weigh the pros and cons, the type of birth mother had, etc and arm your parents with info so they can make the choice for them. As for the oral, yes it has to be repeated (and who is going to guarantee the follow-up) whereas the IM is a one shot does it all. Our hospitals here do not carry the oral as far as I know.

massodoula · 11-11-2006, 08:06 AM

I never knew about the fillers...but doesnt suprise me. I wonder if there is ENOUGH Vit K in breastmilk? I will ask at our next LLL meeting.

MyDoulaStacia · 11-11-2006, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by massodoula

I never knew about the fillers...but doesnt suprise me. I wonder if there is ENOUGH Vit K in breastmilk? I will ask at our next LLL meeting.

That along with not cutting the cord right away should be sufficient.
As mentioned before it's just a hospital thing.

quixoticmama · 11-11-2006, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyDoulaStacia

That along with not cutting the cord right away should be sufficient.
As mentioned before it's just a hospital thing.

What if there is no choice but to have the cord cut immediately - as in a baby not breathing. And I'm not talking about the few seconds of not breathing - I'm talking about : won't respond to stimuli, open-eyed blank stare, WILL NOT breathe.....that's what happened to our daughter - and she didn't breathe for about 20-30 seconds. We had the Vit. K inj - and I'm glad we did because we had a horribly long, tough labor.....I don't think there's anything wrong with getting it. But that's just me

MyDoulaStacia · 11-11-2006, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quixoticmama

What if there is no choice but to have the cord cut immediately - as in a baby not breathing. And I'm not talking about the few seconds of not breathing - I'm talking about : won't respond to stimuli, open-eyed blank stare, WILL NOT breathe.....that's what happened to our daughter - and she didn't breathe for about 20-30 seconds. We had the Vit. K inj - and I'm glad we did because we had a horribly long, tough labor.....I don't think there's anything wrong with getting it. But that's just me

I am not saying there is anything wrong with receiving the shot. All my kids did.
What I have a problem with is the hosptial policy stating that you "have to". I think it should be your choice.

Kim Trower · 11-12-2006, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by massodoula

I never knew about the fillers...but doesnt suprise me. I wonder if there is ENOUGH Vit K in breastmilk? I will ask at our next LLL meeting.

there is not enough, normally, but you could up your own intake of vitamin K (alfalfa, , lots of greens, liquid chlorophyll, etc) and you can get the injection as well but again it would be metabolized too quickly and very small amounts would reach baby.

Kim Trower · 11-12-2006, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quixoticmama

What if there is no choice but to have the cord cut immediately - as in a baby not breathing. And I'm not talking about the few seconds of not breathing - I'm talking about : won't respond to stimuli, open-eyed blank stare, WILL NOT breathe.....that's what happened to our daughter - and she didn't breathe for about 20-30 seconds. We had the Vit. K inj - and I'm glad we did because we had a horribly long, tough labor.....I don't think there's anything wrong with getting it. But that's just me

there is definitely nothing wrong with it if you researched it and you made the choice. As for resuscitation, what I learned in my neonatal resuscitation program is that it is always best to leave baby attached even during resuscitation. I have been at homebirths where oxygen was needed and even mouth to mouth and cord was never cut until baby was doing fine....I realize this is not the norm in hospitals and the NRP they usualy get is not given by a midwife and perinatal psychologist (like mine was).

lillysweets · 11-14-2006, 12:38 AM

Article found at: http://www.healthychild.com/database...necessary_.htm

Are Vitamin K Shots Necessary?
Randall Neustaedter, OMD, LAc, CCH

An injection of vitamin K (1.0 mg) is routinely administered to all newborns to prevent unexpected bleeding caused by low levels of vitamin K-dependent blood clotting factors. Vitamin K is present in green vegetables, vegetable oils, and dairy products, but intake or supplementation during pregnancy does not ensure prevention of vitamin K deficiency in newborns.
*
The syndrome of vitamin K deficiency bleeding occurs in approximately 1 in 10,000 babies. Hemorrhagic disease that occurs from week 2-12 of life is the most dangerous form. Half of these affected babies suffer sudden bleeding into the brain, and 20 percent of affected babies die. Studies have shown that a single injection or oral dose of vitamin K at birth results in adequate coagulation status and vitamin K levels for up to three months following birth.
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Injected vitamin K ran into a problem when researchers in 1990 noted an increased incidence of childhood cancer in children given vitamin K injections at birth. Specifically, they found that injected vitamin K doubled the incidence of leukemia in children less than ten years of age. A subsequent study in 1992 revealed the same association between injected vitamin K and cancer, but no such association with oral vitamin K. These researchers recommended exclusive use of oral vitamin K.
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Since vitamin K given within 12 hours of birth can reduce the risk of vitamin K deficiency bleeding, it seems prudent to give an oral dose of 1-2 mg. Injections of vitamin K are painful and can cause bruising at the injection site. There may also be an increased risk of cancer associated with vitamin K injections.
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Mothers should eat foods with high vitamin K content during pregnancy (green vegetables and dairy products) because vitamin K is transferred to the fetus across the placenta. Pregnant women can also take alfalfa tablets during pregnancy, a good source of vitamin K.
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It is also advisable to give 1-2 mg. of vitamin K to breastfed infants at ages one to two weeks and at four weeks. Formulas are already supplemented with vitamin K. Alternatively, nursing mothers can take a daily dose of vitamin K during the first three months following birth. If nursing mothers take a daily 5 mg. vitamin K supplement, their babies’ vitamin K status improves through the first 12 weeks of life.
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Although oral vitamin K is not licensed for use as a drug by the FDA, drops for oral administration are available. Typically, one drop contains 2 mg. of vitamin K. Contact a midwife in your area, or a birthing supply company (such as birthwithlove.com), or Scientific Botanicals (206 527-5521) where your health care provider can order liquid vitamin K directly.
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Dr. Neustaedter has practiced homeopathic medicine for over twenty years, specializing in child health care. An accomplished and well-recognized author, his works include an authoritative text, Homeopathic Pediatrics, and a popular book for parents, The Vaccine Guide: Making an Informed Choice (1996), a revision of his previous book, The Immunization Decision (1990). He has contributed extensively to the journals that comprise the homeopathic medical literature. Dr. Neustaedter currently manages the Vaccine and Immunization Forum and coordinates the Vaccination content site in HealthWorld Online - http://www.healthy.net/vaccine. A licensed acupuncturist with a doctorate in Oriental Medicine, Dr. Neustaedter practices at the Classical Medicine Center in Redwood City, California (650-299-9170).