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It is currently Sat May 18, 2013 10:27 am
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nancyinabq
Just Joined
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:56 am Posts: 2 Location: Albuquerque
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Hi. I'm a doula and birthing educator in Albuquerque. I'm also an intact Advocate.  I am administrator for Facebook.com/INTACTNM. (Please visit the page and "like" it and pass it on to your friends.) So how do you all approach teaching parents about keeping baby boys whole and intact? Busting medical myths, talking about "his body, his rights", promoting gentle birth, breastfeeding interference, sexual problems later in life, cultural myths, mutalation, equal rights for boys and girls?????
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| Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:25 pm |
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hopelovepeace
Junior Member
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:50 am Posts: 17 Location: Washington state
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Our birthing class showed a video about circumcision and that got us thinking. Maybe that's a good approach.
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| Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:08 pm |
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chitowndoula
Member
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:23 pm Posts: 161
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I must say that although I share your views on circ, I dont feel like it is a doulas place to "educate" parents on my way of thinking. There are several conversations on here about this topic and I encourage you to check them out. I believe that parents hire me to provide unbiased information and support during and after birth. To me this mean giving balanced, accurate information about all topics that are of interest to the parent/s. If a family asks me for information about keeping their baby intact then of course I provide that information, but if a family asks for info on how to best care for a newly circumcised boy I will offer that information just as willingly and without judgement.
As a parent I might feel uncomfortable if my doula approached me with a passionate one-sided info session (in attempts to "educate" me) during our prenatal visits. Doulas are about supporting each mother in HER birth, no matter what that might look like. They are also meant to provide information and then step back and support the decisions of the family.
Your message is important and is one that needs to get out there in the world! I would just be careful about blurring the lines between your doula work and your advocacy work.
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| Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:53 am |
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summermoon
Junior Member
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:38 pm Posts: 36 Location: Alexandria, VA
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chitowndoula wrote: I must say that although I share your views on circ, I dont feel like it is a doulas place to "educate" parents on my way of thinking. There are several conversations on here about this topic and I encourage you to check them out. I believe that parents hire me to provide unbiased information and support during and after birth. To me this mean giving balanced, accurate information about all topics that are of interest to the parent/s. If a family asks me for information about keeping their baby intact then of course I provide that information, but if a family asks for info on how to best care for a newly circumcised boy I will offer that information just as willingly and without judgement. As a parent I might feel uncomfortable if my doula approached me with a passionate one-sided info session (in attempts to "educate" me) during our prenatal visits. Doulas are about supporting each mother in HER birth, no matter what that might look like. They are also meant to provide information and then step back and support the decisions of the family. Your message is important and is one that needs to get out there in the world! I would just be careful about blurring the lines between your doula work and your advocacy work.
 Just like other birth and parenting topics where people have strong views, I bring up this topic gently to ask if they've thought about it and would like to know more about the risks. In some cases, just the phrasing of the question, as in, have you thought about circumcision vs. intact, is the first time they've really heard about being intact as an option. If they open to door to further conversation, then I can provide them with reading material and a link to a video presentation that has more of an activist tone, but I try not to take on that tone myself as their doula. If I get any push back, like one mom who said that she hated the idea but was 100% not going to question her husband's choice on this one, then I drop it.
Sometimes they do ask me about my choice, knowing I have two boys. In that case, I would briefly share how I regret learning about the reality of the surgery by watching what happened to my first son, and would encourage them as well to see what this choice really entails before believing it is fast, painless or harmless. If they are pursuing a gentle birth, I might suggest they think about how this kind of a procedure follows after a peaceful birth. I freely let them know that my experience caring for and cleaning an intact boy is very easy and not strange at all!
_________________~Laurie Birth Doula-in-training with toLabor Mama to 2 beautiful boys:  3/08 via c-section,:boystork 7/10 HBAC! 
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| Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:03 pm |
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BlissfulBeginngingsDoula
Junior Member
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:15 pm Posts: 27 Location: Houston, TX
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I automatically give each potential client (whether they're expecting a boy or a girl!) two cards from Saving Our Sons that has facts about circumcision when I'm giving them my business cards. That way they view them at their own convenience and they will sometimes ask me about it, at other times they won't. I find it's a very non-confrontational way to bring it up and also let them know my position. The cards are found here- there's a front and a backside. If they bring it up, I try to be like Laurie posted above and gently discuss the risks and I try to (very calmly) explain why I think it's unethical and immoral, and tell them I'd be happy to share my experiences as well. Most of my clients are very Christian so I am also able to offer bible verses for them to consider. Generally I start with telling them that only 32% of boys in the USA are currently circumcised, they are all surprised to know that the majority of boys are left intact here! I also have the Circumcision info packet from Peaceful Parenting that I have and offer to clients who are considering circ or not, sadly none have wanted to see it. For me, it's hard to stay calm because I'm also an intactivist, and I'm pretty sure *I* suffer from PTSD after being present for my first son's circ. Sadly, most of my clients expecting boys still circ, not because the mom wants to (they don't!) but because the dad wants to. It breaks my heart because that's what I did the first time too and I know the pain that comes from it (for baby and mom). I support Mom's birthing choices but I would never willing help with or support a circumcision, and my clients know that before they hire me. (I don't know how they'd expect me to do that anyways, but it's out there just in case!)
_________________Stephanie Blissful Beginnings Doula Care, and on Facebooktoo!
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| Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:03 pm |
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manaturelle
Just Joined
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:50 pm Posts: 9 Location: sacramento, CA
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i have several talking points but lets start by remembering that no matter how adamant you are about staying intact or how horrific you think the practice is, and i do! it's not our job to judge. believe me, i never thought i'd say that! i'm a militant "save the foreskin" soldier. i have a take no prisoners attitude. i accept no excuses and don't believe there is ANY rational for doing it. i believe it is genial mutilation and child abuse. BUT having said all that, i've been urged by my husband (also pro intact) to have a compromise position, so, here goes: if you can't save the foreskin, suggest to the parents that they request a "loose" circumcision or that the have it performed by a mohel using a jewish clamp. you can check these out yourselves to save space here. So here are my talking points, and i can say that they've worked:
1. would you circumcise your little girl? of course not. but the same reasons not to apply to your baby boy.
2. circ is an elective, cosmetic, non-medical surgery. there is no medical reason for performing it. therefore, your baby cannot provide informed consent. parents cannot opt for cosmetic surgery for their children. would you take your newborn to the plastic surgeon and ask for a nose job? again, of course not! same reasons apply here.
3. circing removes up to 70% of enervated tissue from the penis, ask any man circed if they'd like 70% of the sensation returned to their penis? DUH! the most sensitive part of a cired man's penis is the little bit the doc left during the surgery and the scar tissue around the glans. have him check for himself. that bumpy ring around the head? not his, doctor put it there.
4. hospitals make huge profits selling baby boy foreskins to cosmetic and other companies. along with placentas, by the way. they are selling baby foreskins for profit. last i checked, it was illegal to sell body parts. parents are told it's biowaste and will be incinerated. not true! a huge portion of a hospitals income is foreskins and placentas.
5. have the parents go to nocirc.org, click on the link of the video of a circumcision. if they can get through it and imagine that being their baby. well, i'd be speechless and call cps but short of that i'd be concerned about their preparedness for being parents.
6. dad says, i had it done, my dad had it done, i want my son to look like me. you ask "how many times have you seen your dad's penis?" usually the answer is none. what happens if the baby has the wife's eyes or different color hair? "will you be sending it back because it doesn't look like you?" baby's don't need to have matching genitals. if they're having a girl, her vulva will not look like mommy's. but we don't surgically alter it to look like hers, do we?
7. and yes, they did it to you and you survived, but had your mother ever seen an intact penis, did she really know what they were about to do to you several hours after your birth? she probably had no idea and she probably regrets it. have them ask her.
8. explain that the penis is an internal organ, it was never meant to be exposed to the world the way a circed penis is. the clitoris even has a hood. penises are meant to be covered, not exposed. a tremendous amount of sensation is lost from the constant contact a circed penis is forced to deal with. the skin of a circed penis feels like the your elbow or the heel of our hand an intact penis feels more like your lips or eyelid, or sometimes even the inside of your cheek.
9. when the OB performs a circumcision, he does them all the same way (or not depending, on his mood and/or his golf schedule) nonetheless, he has no idea if the penis before him will grow up to be a three inch penis or an eight inch penis, however, he will remove the same amount of foreskin regardless. YAY for the three inch guy, boo for the eight inch guy.
10. cleaning. always a big issue. there is no cleaning an intact penis. it's self-cleaning. you wipe it off like a finger or toe, rinse it during a bath, done deal! as an example, when you change a little girls diaper, do you clean INSIDE her vagina? no, you do not. same thing. no reason to, not necessary. an intact penis requires not maintenance.
okay - guess that's all for now. there's a great publication called "where's my foreskin" that midwifery today publishes. that and a short conversation saved a foreskin the other day! YAY! FIGHT FOR THE FORESKIN!
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| Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:11 pm |
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Chana King
Just Joined
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:49 pm Posts: 6 Location: Northern New Jersey
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As an Orthodox Jewish doula, I would have to ask that you respect other's rights to their religious beliefs and do not try to impose your beliefs on others. In the Jewish religion, circumcision is a commandment from G-d that should be respected, just as you would want others to respect your beliefs, religious or otherwise. I would be extremely upset if my doula tried to convince me that my religious belief in circumcision is "child abuse" and "genital mutilation". I have four boys, all circumcised, and while I respect your right NOT to circumcise your sons, if anyone would have tried to stop me from circumcising mine, I would have felt that my rights as a religious Jew had been violated. So please, keep your views to yourself, unless asked for an opinion by your clients. Being a doula is about supporting a woman's choices in childbirth, not about imposing our own on her.
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| Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:19 am |
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manaturelle
Just Joined
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:50 pm Posts: 9 Location: sacramento, CA
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respecting others right's was exactly how i started my post. our jobs as doulas is to provide comfort, information and non-judgmental support. you being jewish brings your own bias into your practice, just as my buddhism brings bias into mine. however. as an buddhist, i respect all religions equally because i am not invested in any of them. my clients were not jewish but had decided to circ based only on american cultural myth and uninformed tradition. they were looking for information in order to make an informed decision. i gave it to them, they changed their minds. that's my job. foreskin saved!
yes, i have a very strong opinions about this topic, i'm sorry that you find it offensive, but i find yours offensive as well. if you read the opening of my post you would see that my compromise position is to have the circumcision done my a mohel in the jewish way. but, even many jewish rabbis are no longer recommending circumcision, there are other ceremonies that can be performed instead that can serve the same purpose. it is genital mutilation, there is no way around that, whether it's for religious reasons or cosmetic ones. the outcome is the same. we call female circumcision genital mutilation, it's the same thing. you are making a very personal decision about someone's else's body that is irreversible. your child may grow up and leave the jewish church, then what? we don't own our children. i don't believe any parent has the right to insist on cosmetic surgery for an un-consenting newborn child. religion is a choice, once snipped, permanent genital alteration of a newborn is not. let him decide later in life when he can make the choice for himself. i don't know enough about judaism to know what happens to a child, spiritually, who isn't circumcised but i'll find out. i have jewish friends i can consult. although they are intactivists at this point in their lives. i should educate myself on this topic.
i'm sorry, i will not keep my views to myself. the post was an invitation for information about circumcision. i provide my clients with information that they ask for. they know from the beginning of our relationship how i feel about circumcision, natural childbirth, breastfeeding. vaccinating, vegetarianism, homeschooling, free-thinking, newborn exams, the "medical model" of childbirth and my views on parenting. i have nothing to hide and i don't hold anything back from my parents. without that trust and exchange of honesty, i have no business being at their labor. i don't make decisions for them, i don't manage their experience. i'm there to help facilitate it and allow the couple to support each other without inference from outside. i go above and beyond for my couples, i put in hours upon hours of preparation and make sure they have everything they need., emotionally, physically, spiritually, and, sometimes, financially. i don't charge for my services. i loan out my birth tub and all my birth supplies. it's THEIR birth and i want them to own it and my job is to be invisible. but i will continue to try to save foreskins. i believe babies are born perfect and see no need for plastic surgery to improve them.
respectfully, teresa
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| Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:36 am |
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BtownDoula
Member
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:14 am Posts: 143 Location: Bloomington, IN
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I'm an admin for WIN Whole Indiana Newborns (the Indiana chapter of THE WHOLE NETWORK), and I also am a volunteer with TWN and I set up informational booths at baby fairs all across the state  So I just put some of our info cards and brochures in my new client folders. I also have "The Circumcision Decision" DVD in my lending library.
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| Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:11 pm |
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BtownDoula
Member
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:14 am Posts: 143 Location: Bloomington, IN
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Chana King wrote: As an Orthodox Jewish doula, I would have to ask that you respect other's rights to their religious beliefs and do not try to impose your beliefs on others. In the Jewish religion, circumcision is a commandment from G-d that should be respected, just as you would want others to respect your beliefs, religious or otherwise. I would be extremely upset if my doula tried to convince me that my religious belief in circumcision is "child abuse" and "genital mutilation". I have four boys, all circumcised, and while I respect your right NOT to circumcise your sons, if anyone would have tried to stop me from circumcising mine, I would have felt that my rights as a religious Jew had been violated. So please, keep your views to yourself, unless asked for an opinion by your clients. Being a doula is about supporting a woman's choices in childbirth, not about imposing our own on her. The intactivism movement is present today even in Judiasm, and there are alternatives that parents should be informed about. Many Jewish families today are choosing to have ceremonies that do NOT include cutting, and there is nothing wrong with providing info to parents about this option. For more info, you can check out TheWholeNetwork.org. We have multiple resources for Jewish parents 
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| Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:14 pm |
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Spidette
Member
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:06 pm Posts: 400 Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan
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[quote="summermoon"]Sometimes they do ask me about my choice, knowing I have two boys. In that case, I would briefly share how I regret learning about the reality of the surgery by watching what happened to my first son, and would encourage them as well to see what this choice really entails before believing it is fast, painless or harmless. quote] True, not every circ is like this... but just last semester when I was doing my OB rotation for nursing school, I observed circumcisions being preformed. I had assumed the worst seeing all the circ videos and such, but in reality every circ this one doc did that day was the exact opposite. The only time the baby cried was at the very begining when the doc numbed the penis (injected anesthetic). From then on none of the babies cried and even 3 of them fell asleep during the procedure.
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| Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:47 pm |
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Spidette
Member
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:06 pm Posts: 400 Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan
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manaturelle wrote: i have several talking points but lets start by remembering that no matter how adamant you are about staying intact or how horrific you think the practice is, and i do! it's not our job to judge. believe me, i never thought i'd say that! i'm a militant "save the foreskin" soldier. i have a take no prisoners attitude. i accept no excuses and don't believe there is ANY rational for doing it. i believe it is genial mutilation and child abuse. BUT having said all that, i've been urged by my husband (also pro intact) to have a compromise position, so, here goes: if you can't save the foreskin, suggest to the parents that they request a "loose" circumcision or that the have it performed by a mohel using a jewish clamp. you can check these out yourselves to save space here. So here are my talking points, and i can say that they've worked: 1. would you circumcise your little girl? of course not. but the same reasons not to apply to your baby boy. 2. circ is an elective, cosmetic, non-medical surgery. there is no medical reason for performing it. therefore, your baby cannot provide informed consent. parents cannot opt for cosmetic surgery for their children. would you take your newborn to the plastic surgeon and ask for a nose job? again, of course not! same reasons apply here. Um YES parents CAN opt for cosmetic surgery for their children! 3. circing removes up to 70% of enervated tissue from the penis, ask any man circed if they'd like 70% of the sensation returned to their penis? DUH! the most sensitive part of a cired man's penis is the little bit the doc left during the surgery and the scar tissue around the glans. have him check for himself. that bumpy ring around the head? not his, doctor put it there. 4. hospitals make huge profits selling baby boy foreskins to cosmetic and other companies. along with placentas, by the way. they are selling baby foreskins for profit. last i checked, it was illegal to sell body parts. parents are told it's biowaste and will be incinerated. not true! a huge portion of a hospitals income is foreskins and placentas. Maybe this happens in other countries but NOT in the U.S. It is illegal on many levels not to mention it would be FRAUD for a hospital to sell a placenta that medicaid paid anything for. 5. have the parents go to nocirc.org, click on the link of the video of a circumcision. if they can get through it and imagine that being their baby. well, i'd be speechless and call cps but short of that i'd be concerned about their preparedness for being parents. Guess what? You have officially met the parent that HAS ordered AND watched the video from nocirc.org and both my sons are circ'd. 6. dad says, i had it done, my dad had it done, i want my son to look like me. you ask "how many times have you seen your dad's penis?" usually the answer is none. what happens if the baby has the wife's eyes or different color hair? "will you be sending it back because it doesn't look like you?" baby's don't need to have matching genitals. if they're having a girl, her vulva will not look like mommy's. but we don't surgically alter it to look like hers, do we? 7. and yes, they did it to you and you survived, but had your mother ever seen an intact penis, did she really know what they were about to do to you several hours after your birth? she probably had no idea and she probably regrets it. have them ask her. 8. explain that the penis is an internal organ, it was never meant to be exposed to the world the way a circed penis is. the clitoris even has a hood. penises are meant to be covered, not exposed. a tremendous amount of sensation is lost from the constant contact a circed penis is forced to deal with. the skin of a circed penis feels like the your elbow or the heel of our hand an intact penis feels more like your lips or eyelid, or sometimes even the inside of your cheek. 9. when the OB performs a circumcision, he does them all the same way (or not depending, on his mood and/or his golf schedule) nonetheless, he has no idea if the penis before him will grow up to be a three inch penis or an eight inch penis, however, he will remove the same amount of foreskin regardless. YAY for the three inch guy, boo for the eight inch guy. 10. cleaning. always a big issue. there is no cleaning an intact penis. it's self-cleaning. you wipe it off like a finger or toe, rinse it during a bath, done deal! as an example, when you change a little girls diaper, do you clean INSIDE her vagina? no, you do not. same thing. no reason to, not necessary. an intact penis requires not maintenance. okay - guess that's all for now. there's a great publication called "where's my foreskin" that midwifery today publishes. that and a short conversation saved a foreskin the other day! YAY! FIGHT FOR THE FORESKIN! And that's all I'll say... to be quite honest I think your reasoning is so far to one side that it borders on bs in my book.
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| Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:00 am |
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manaturelle
Just Joined
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:50 pm Posts: 9 Location: sacramento, CA
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i'm curious about what cosmetic surgery is permissible? cleft palates, port wine stains, severe facial abnormalities, limb deformities, etc. these are corrective, not cosmetic. can you give me one example of a purely cosmetic surgery that a certified, ethical, plastic surgeon would perform on a newborn? (not ear piercing at the mall) just because a parent will consent to it, doesn't make it any less immoral. it's the newborn that must consent, not the parent. the surgery isn't being performed on the parent. hence the problem with "informed consent" i have to give you props for being able to watch that video of a baby being circumcised. you are the one and only that i know of, and was still able to circ your boys. do they represent a bris? because that's my compromise position. i think the jewish clamp is the most humane and leaves the most foreskin. because it's a symbolic procedure, there's no need to take so much foreskin as to make some penises inoperable later in life. the point isn't to alter the function of the penis but to make a symbolic sacrifice. there's a major in thinking there. selling placentas and foreskins does happen in the US. why is that surprising? here are just a few examples. it's after midnight but i could find more tomorrow if you'd like. . Human foreskin foreskin-cream Looking for the fountain of youth? Look no further than foreskin. It probably sounds a little bit gross, and probably a little bit unethical to some, but human foreskin is actually used by numerous cosmetic companies around the world. In the medical field, human foreskin has been used for years as a method to cultivate new skin growth, instead of performing skin graphs on burn patients. It’s been proven to work much more effectively. The same method is also used in the cosmetics world. Companies, the most notable being SkinMedica, use foreskin fibroblasts in cosmetic creams and collagens, especially those made to reduce wrinkles Read more: http://www.toptenz.net/products-in-cosmetics.php#ixzz1tDjlFCCWHuman placenta placenta If you’re Tom Cruise, a mom, or a father brave enough to stay in the delivery room, you probably know what a placenta is, and I doubt it’s something you want to remember knowing about or even seeing. Despite how disgusting they look, some people have actually found a new use for them: cosmetics. The company Plazan has created and manufactured an entire line of cosmetics made with human placenta. Why placenta? Apparently cosmetics that use hormones extracted from the placenta, such as Hyaluronic Acid and Protein Hydrolysate, help to promote tissue growth, which is very effective in removing wrinkles. As if it’s any better, our bodies don’t become reliant upon products with human placenta because it’s made with our biological structure, both those products that use animal placenta are another story. Read more: http://www.toptenz.net/products-in-cosmetics.php#ixzz1tDjtarqAyou are absolutely correct that my reasoning is one-sided, just as yours is. of course i have a point of view, as do you. religion gives no special dispensation when it comes to backing up one's rhetoric. i don't make claims that i can't substantiate. i see no bull shit in that. i don't have to agree with my parents to commit to them 1000%. it's not my brth experience.
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| Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:06 am |
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manaturelle
Just Joined
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:50 pm Posts: 9 Location: sacramento, CA
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i'm curious about what cosmetic surgery is permissible? cleft palates, port wine stains, severe facial abnormalities, limb deformities, etc. these are corrective, not cosmetic. can you give me one example of a purely cosmetic surgery that a certified, ethical, plastic surgeon would perform on a newborn? (not ear piercing at the mall) just because a parent will consent to it, doesn't make it any less immoral. it's the newborn that must consent, not the parent. the surgery isn't being performed on the parent. hence the problem with "informed consent" i have to give you props for being able to watch that video of a baby being circumcised. you are the one and only that i know of, and was still able to circ your boys. do they represent a bris? because that's my compromise position. i think the jewish clamp is the most humane and leaves the most foreskin. because it's a symbolic procedure, there's no need to take so much foreskin as to make some penises inoperable later in life. the point isn't to alter the function of the penis but to make a symbolic sacrifice. there's a major difference in thinking there. selling placentas and foreskins does happen in the US. why is that surprising? here are just a few examples. it's after midnight but i could find more tomorrow if you'd like. . Human foreskin foreskin-cream Looking for the fountain of youth? Look no further than foreskin. It probably sounds a little bit gross, and probably a little bit unethical to some, but human foreskin is actually used by numerous cosmetic companies around the world. In the medical field, human foreskin has been used for years as a method to cultivate new skin growth, instead of performing skin graphs on burn patients. It’s been proven to work much more effectively. The same method is also used in the cosmetics world. Companies, the most notable being SkinMedica, use foreskin fibroblasts in cosmetic creams and collagens, especially those made to reduce wrinkles Read more: http://www.toptenz.net/products-in-cosmetics.php#ixzz1tDjlFCCWHuman placenta placenta If you’re Tom Cruise, a mom, or a father brave enough to stay in the delivery room, you probably know what a placenta is, and I doubt it’s something you want to remember knowing about or even seeing. Despite how disgusting they look, some people have actually found a new use for them: cosmetics. The company Plazan has created and manufactured an entire line of cosmetics made with human placenta. Why placenta? Apparently cosmetics that use hormones extracted from the placenta, such as Hyaluronic Acid and Protein Hydrolysate, help to promote tissue growth, which is very effective in removing wrinkles. As if it’s any better, our bodies don’t become reliant upon products with human placenta because it’s made with our biological structure, both those products that use animal placenta are another story. Read more: Top 10 Products You Didn’t Know Are Used in Cosmetics | Top 10 Lists | TopTenz.netyou are absolutely correct that my reasoning is one-sided, just as yours is. of course i have a point of view, as do you. religion gives no special dispensation when it comes to backing up one's rhetoric. i don't make claims that i can't substantiate. i see no bull shit in that. i don't have to agree with my parents to commit to them 1000%. it's not my birth experience. thank you for responding.
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| Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:06 am |
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BtownDoula
Member
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:14 am Posts: 143 Location: Bloomington, IN
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The only time the baby cried was at the very begining when the doc numbed the penis (injected anesthetic). From then on none of the babies cried and even 3 of them fell asleep during the procedure.[/quote]
How sad....when this happens it is because the baby's body has registered so much pain so quickly that it has simply gone into shock. It's nature's way of getting them through something so intense.
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| Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:09 am |
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